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Video performances on youtube (Read 74846 times)

Orb Vroomer

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#45 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 10, 2009, 11:55:34 AM
Ditto on the whole age/energy issue.I always fooled around on keys & knew a fair amount of basic theory.Not mentioned it yet,but the 3 years off of time,I decided to up my key/composition skills.I recently decided I was good enough to justify spending $2000 on a Rowhand RD-700 GX.  This might sound strange,but I have been learning mostly my favorite songs/artists from the 60's.I can now play about 70 Beatle songs.From memory,maybe about 40.I also used DP seq. to try & play in every part on many of these-drums,bass,acoustic g,el g,orch,perc,everything.All in real time like a tape less studio.No metronome,no quantisizing,etc. Needless to say only ,a few actually sound pretty good.Most as a whole are rubbish (sounding compared to Beatles,of course).I never had plans to use this stuff for a pop gig or anything like that.It was an excellent way to learn about composing.Besides Beatles,there is Floyd,Byrds,Zep,E,L&P (barely) ,Paul Simon,CSN&Y.Supertramp (70's too), & so on.I even taught myself guitar chord voicings on the keyboard.I bought my only sound software, Fab Four,because I like the Beatles so much.It has a 1966Martin D-28 model guitar (fingered & picked samples) in there that's so realistic sounding, in certain applications you would swear it was performed by a guitar player on an acoustic guitar.Anyone who likes the Beatles will love Fab Four software.(from East/West Sounds).The producers did an incredible job with this.It has Ringo kits,processed el. guitars,organ,harmonium,acoustic guitars.I highly recommend this for any Beatle lovers. Any time you can dedicate to any other inst. will benefit you greatly as a musician.You can utilize these skills to produce your own original songs,or just have fun playing songs you like.So it gets back to the time factor. Days are set @ 24 hours,so it cuts away from drumming time. I still suggest you pursue any other inst. ,as time allows.Good luck. orb.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 11:54:21 PM by Orb Vroomer »

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#46 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 10, 2009, 12:20:30 PM
I have always been a frustrated keyboard player. I love synths. I would really love to be able to learn to read. Right now my brain isn't doing well with it, so I came up with my own number system. That takes time to translate based on how fast I can read regular notation. There are at least 37 different music notation systems out there, all base on people's dislike of the traditional system, which everyone from classical to rock and back have cursed for its tough aspects getting new musicians into their instrument. Thus far I haven't found one that works with my logic level, so I made my own. Works okay with major scales, but once I leave that it'll need adjusting.

When I watch guys like you do their thing on the DKs I really admire the time it takes to program all that stuff. I would get more into it if time allowed. But, reality check.

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#47 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 10, 2009, 12:33:07 PM
    Wesley Crusher, you say you want a modern star trek kit, but it seems you want to ignore the required learning, grasshopper.
   REF Personally, I also want to concentrate more on the music, and less on tech stuff. but you're stopping me by saying certain things are impossible or uncertain or iffy, just like you said a true drum soloist act can't be done. (if you are right then I have some serious reevaluation to do in my life! cause I did gigs as a soloist)  If you say these things to yourself, or to others you know, that is all well and good. But if you say those things here in this forum, I am compelled to give MHO to whatever degree is allowed by the moderator. My DKAT students are doiing VS by the fifth lesson. They start transposes by the tenth. And in the future others will take some of what we've laid out in these past 20 years, and there will be solo drummers. I'm not thinking about tech stuff, I know what these boxes will do! When you dispute what they do, or question musical practicality, I go synergistic!  
    REF  I teach and taught a lot over the years. By the time my students get to the 'chops' you have, they have already mastered tap/accent contrast and dynamics. Taps and accent are used in any music, and on every instrument....The normal playing of a phrase requires taps and accents....two levels for expression. Without taps and accents, you are like a mono drum machine. You are like a first generation robot trying to talk. A song that uses one note! (and it's not a snare???) Even if you are some heavy metal one volume heel in the air pounder, you still have to play taps and accents, or you can't have music. Then you add ppp, pp, p, mp, mf, f, ff, fff, So I hate to get mathy (again) but that gives us 16 distinct levels, that is taps and accents at 8 different volumes. Now you didn't get to where you are without this knowledge. (I know in my heart) So when applying this to e-drums, it's not hard at all to have bell bow edge under one pad. I have them all over my kits. (actually I got a couple that are edge, bow, bell, crash, bassdrum with VS & link ) It's just like when I play my acoustic cymbal (hardly different) when I play the bell, I must hold onto the sticks tighter and play a little louder/harder, and the converse for the edge. If I hit the edge as hard as I hit the bell, the results are unmusical, and probably too loud. And in the case of my hybrid K ride it sounds more like wash and less like a ride! This is a natural thing which requires no extra effort and no extra learning. Striking force is a big part of music and taste. Three things in a velocity shift should not be a gamble to an experienced drummer/musician.
   REF so great you have a grandchild!!! good life. Also Procussion is great with fun sounds and plays well with KATs
   ORB I never knew synergy could be a musical term! my oxford dictionsry doesn't have it. funny; one of my bands was going to be named synergy rush, but they figured enough people wouldn't find this trendy 80's word would stick, so we became energy rush.
vince

Orb Vroomer

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#48 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 10, 2009, 01:29:19 PM
 go pick up: ROCK KEYBOARD by Scott Miller (complete guide with CD) Hal Leonard. Guitar Center had it. There are 8 chapters-classic rock,pop rock,blues rock ,southern rock,hard rock,progressive rock,alternative rock,heavy metal. I don't read music either. A long time ago I learned all the basic chords.It might be easier to learn chords before scales. The finger position of chords can point towards the scales. I 'marked up' the book, since I can't read.I've started out strong,but never made it all the way through.Every example in this book have been used over & over in R&R. Blow off 2 handed playing,but study what's going on. You MUST learn the blues scale. Even if you can't play like all the examples (I can't) you can start constructing chords & scales on your Kat. In that environment, you'll be comfortable playing-because it's your inst.Get a set up going with some chords & scales & guess what? With Transpose you can switch it to any key you like! Don't even bother trying to play in a 'hard key' (on the keyboard) . I also have Supertramp's greatest (a bit advanced) ,Billy Joel complete vol 1(I have not touched yet),Elton John (essential,a step by step breakdown of his styles & techniques) ,and Dark Side of the Moon. Don't let me confuse you-I can barely play watered down versions of Billy or Elton-I could never play like those guys!!!!  But if you just start with songs you know & like,you'll pick a lot of stuff up. Pink Floyd is not as hard as I imagined. All the production is what made that (besides the greatness of the music/writing). These are harder examples. When I first was learning chords, it was Niel Young & easier songs. Go to AZ Chords on the web. It doesn't have published looking music (copyright issues),it just has words & chords (which you will have to figure out). & it's free. Go learn Free Falling by Tom Petty. It's like only 4 chords- & it's a 1 part song. You heard right-1 progression.Seek out these gems & you'll be doing tuned songs in no time (if you want). I'll never be able to play Elton or Billy by the end of my life-but I'll be playing SOME of the easier songs.Here is Orb's philosophical approach to music/life. Always choose unattainable goals! If you set your goals as achievable or easy you'll probably succeed.If you set them too high,you probably won't get there,but you will far surpass your easily attainable goals!! I would have never created Orb Vroomer without thinking like that!!!  Good Luck. orb.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 10:22:02 AM by Orb Vroomer »

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#49 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 10, 2009, 06:41:15 PM
Vince, you need to post some video examples of all you are saying. Matter of fact, make a dvd to sell to us on the lower end of the tech scale. Doesn't have to be fancy. Just has to be available. Unless I see you doing what you are stating, it isn't going to click. I have never doubted the ability of the KATs to do incredible things. I do doubt my ability and time to program everything you are saying. And in the end, my use of edrums is not about the thing you have going. Putting six different instruments on one pad and having to play them at six different pressures? No way. I can envision putting a gong on a pad and having to really up the pressure to trigger it, but not the stuff you are talking about. I would really have to see it done.  I don't know everything you do as a solo act. I do know with all the solo acts I have seen thus far, the music spectrum is limited by many things. A one man band can never sound like a full band each musician really doing their own thing. It is not possible. Just what a drummer does limits the musical expression of a full band of any kind. What a rummer does in his role is not what other musicians do, in reality. The feel is not the same. The musical expression is not the same. The thinking is not the same. So the one man band edrummer will, of necessity, when the novelty wears off, sound like a drummer playing all the parts. That is what I have seen in all the examples present thus far. It sounds interesting, and some drummers make it look more entertaining or more fun than others, but it has its limitations. It is a novelty of sorts.

The thing Ed Uribe does on the A.M. site is really cool. But when you break it down, it does sound like a drummer controlling the music. It has a drummer's sticking and expression. Kind of like a keyboard player playing drums. Limited. They do it. But it sounds ... canned to me. Somewhat stiff and mono-dimensional. I don't think any kind of technology will be able to get away from that for the one man act playing everything live, without sequencing.

I know what you mean about naming pieces. The things I sent in for the contest all have names. I didn't know how to edit them onto each solo. They show up when you pop the DVD into the player. But names do lend some kind of personality to what you are trying to get across. "Dances with Elephants" was one of the names. "March of the Flutterbies" was another. And they do conjure up images that lend to watching what the musician comes up with to match the name of the solo or piece of music.

Orb, once I get past some things around here I'll get back into music more heavily. Well, actually, we are moving in a couple months, then I have to renovate the house we are going to ... sheesh, I'll never get this gig down. Which is okay in reality. Gives me something to look forward to. I need more time!!!!!!

One thing I have noticed. My wife plays flute, very well. She can join other musicians and just play. I asked her how she does it. Of course, any band I was in never had sheet music, and all the musicians just knew the keys and went from there, but I never had to bother with that. I just had to count. I asked my wife how can we whistle and go all over a scale, not knowing music, but I cannot get this thing down by reading it. She told me not to be frustrated because after awhile I will hear notes coming before they come. It's a matter of knowing the key signatures. And sure enough I was getting to the point where I could see and hear all that happening in my head. I just need to devote time every single day to it. Just so many responsibilities and necessities right now. If I was a gigging musician or doing clinics I would have to devote the time, and Lord willing I would love to be back into it like that again. I think any drummer having the ability to read and play another instrument is way ahead of the game.


Orb Vroomer

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#50 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 10, 2009, 09:00:38 PM
 Healthy disagreement is fine by me. Everyone has opinions,philosophical differences,points of view etc.Let's look @ some musical history for a minute. Let's see.......when Bob Dylan broke out an electric guitar his "folk music fans through a fit & decided they would go from loving him to hating him!!! It didn't sound like his acoustic guitar. It didn't have the nuances & inflections of his ac. guit.-RIGHT-it's a completely different instrument. When synthisizers were brand new the symphonies through a fit!! "Our entire orchestra is being replaced with this one guy on a STRANGE instrument,they complained". We have to circle the unions & fight this outrage!!!   Keith Emerson was a quite excellent player of  piano & Hammond B3 organ. But the guy sure could freak on an early moog!!  Funny,but the synth had no resemblance in sound whatsoever to his more traditional instruments....It was monophonic & had NO velocity sensitivity. And I do believe he could play several musical parts simultaneously.His synth didn't have any resemblance to his B3 or piano. Good flamingo guitar players can play rhythms on the sound body,while picking,strumming etc.etc etc.........You want your electronic drums to produce the sounds of an acoustical drum set.That's not happening any time soon,so why do you attempt to do this ? There are many drummers who say "I done likke thum ther eletrico drums,thum dag thangs ain't not soundin nottin likke me skins"....Correct-it's a different instrument!!! Am I hearing you correctly when you saying a HUMAN one man band sounds canned & a sequencer sounds WHAT?? Mono-dimensional ? A human is 'stiff' compared to a sequencer?? Huh?? Of course a one man band will sound different than an ensemble of any size. But doesn't a duo have limitations that a trio wouldn't have? And doesn't a trio have limitations a 4 piece & on & on & on?? If your synth's strings don't sound like an orch's strings,is it then necessary to bag it because it's "just a novelty".Would you kick your key player out & replace him with half an orchestra?? Note to backwards looking thinkers- I can play arps,fills,licks,so fast,so difficult that NO keyboard player could touch @ a live gig!! Are they then reduced to a novelty?? Note: an ensemble of acoustic players sounds different than an ensemble of electronic players. And,funny thing--EVERY SINGLE ENTRY IN THE CONTEST SOUNDS LIKE A DIFFERENT DRUMMER--BECAUSE THEY ARE. I ACTUALLY PERFORMED AS A ONE MAN BAND FOR 8 YEARS! I've already been doing what you think doesn't work.Did I fool everyone somehow?  Do you think any of the venues I played @ hired me as a "NOVELTY ACT". I guess it's a matter of one's interpretation of definitions. Here's who I would categorize as a "NOVELTY ACT"--Wierd Al Yank-a -krank (& I love his act ), The Chipmonks,etc. Have you ever been to Branson,Mo? I've never BEEN there but the "BaldKnobbers play there-I don't think anyone in that band has front teeth.Can they not afford dentures? No-but with front teeth the "NOVELTY" would wear off. Have you ever seen "Los Straightjackets" ? They are a 4 piece surf band that wears wrestling masks.They are a  kickin band,but masks? That sounds kind of "NOVELTY". By the way,if you HEARD my music,but didn't SEE me perform would you be able to tell it was 1 musician live??? Performing on electronic pads ? If I sent you an MP3 file could you tell if it was live playing or a computer sequence? Could you tell if the data was input on my keyboard or my Kat? Or for that matter,which of my 'songs' would you classify as "NOVELTY SONGS". Islands in the Sky? Orb's Orchestra??? Check out the last measure of "Groove Dog's". Does that tiny riff @ the end sound @ all like a sax riff played by a HUMAN? Or does it sound more natural to you, like a sequencer??  I see the "NOVELTY" aspect of my act not 'WEARING OFF" anytime soon. peace & harmony to all.  orb.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 12:00:52 AM by Orb Vroomer »

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#51 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 10, 2009, 09:29:16 PM
    Okay you're almost ready to make a velocity shift with a gong! My work here is done!!
     I have to agree with you....for e-drumming the thinking is not the same and the music isn't the same and I hear you to a point. But once you get a big book and add some props have some jokes ready, before you know it it starts to transform. What's happening is just the beginning, someone had to start! And let's face it. there are all kinds of places of success with this stuff that comes way before being a soloist. How about the first time you get paid for playing drums and covering percussion (I can remember my first beer) Then what about when you can add percussion and you can play a little pad or droning synth to thicken up a guitar soloist to make it sound like a band. Or the first time you pull off playing bass and drums for a whole night and get paid for two players. Many successes for the ole drummer along the way. You're working on melodic instruments at the same time..trying to learn...you don't think that makes you a much more useful guy in a band? A much more dangerous drummer! Actually now that I got you to agree to adding one velocity shift to your kits, you are one of us.... Assimilation has already begun Surprise!
      Okay, the only two videos on dvd are what you see for the contest. In the future I will try to fix that volume and add a bunch more but right now that's it....but! we're in luck because I might have every example in those tunes. In the first half of Something I Had To Play (first tune starts with a bass drum fishtank) I play a big brass bell of some kind and I use three pads. The first one is an Alt 8 where I played a decending whole tone scale (half step whole step and repeat etc.) when I want it to descend I hit a  group trasnpose pad that descends by octaves when I want it back, I hit the home base pad. At one point I'm descending down like five octaves . Thats a total of 40 different notes or 5 times 8....so if you change the bell to toms you're talking 40 toms on three pads.
     In Fridge Crystals I use auto transpose on the part where I play the vibe and bass lick and it sounds kinda spacey when it revoloves up and up into oblivion. Again octaves of notes, but in this case instead of going 5 x 8 we are using a chromatic scale (all note) so it's five or six x 13.
     Velocity shifts are everywhere. You might not be able to hear it (the sound is so bad) but on Fridge all the polekats are doing ride cym when I stay soft and then a synth sound and then will crash when hit loud and there's a light signal in there too that will trigger a lite when hit hard enough.
     Cool names on yer tunes!
     You should set up some kits with bass and jam with your wife! With the DrumKAT this is cheatingly easy because we have scales and chords on a page that we can call up in seconds
Vince

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#52 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 10, 2009, 10:18:29 PM
   REF you are saying we can never sound natural and do a tune without sequencer. It depends on the music.....here's a tune I did for a while where I covered all the parts and it is exactly the same as the radio version, and this tune was number one for a while I believe. You have to have real audio It's the JJ tune Together Again
http://vindrumsmusic.tripod.com/modern-drumming/vonne-andring.htm 
I'm pretty sure most would agree I pegged this one....funny I was using a sequencer with this girl, and one day after putting the notes into the sequencer, I realized, wait I have enough hands to do that! I think this recording was done that first day I figured it out.
    I'm thinking a drummer in the future would be better at playing drums and keys at the same time than would a keyboard player......they simply can't play drums well enough!
Vince

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#53 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 11, 2009, 08:18:05 AM
LOL. I knew I'd ruffle feathers with that post. I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone, though.

We all have different views of what "music" is. What passes for multi-million selling "artists" today would not have gotten out of their garage back in our day. If music is a balance or mix of melody, harmony and rhythm, by common consent of definition, alot of what passes for music today is noise. Now, people have come to redefine music, and noise counts as music. So be it.

To that end, as cool and interesting, fascinating, mesmerizing, mentally challenging, and stunning as the one man band concept is, which floats (I never intended to imply it can not), and it being a new genre itself, it will never sound like different musicians playing their instruments. Now to the end that synths do what they do, and I love them, no one would ever say a synth will ever replace a full sized, living, breathing orchestra. But, yes, synths do what they do and lots of people make livings using them. Although, to be honest, as near as I can tell the holy grail for keyboard players is a realistic piano. So, to that end, drummers who want realism from edrums are certainly not alone. I would say the vast majority of edrummers want realism to their acoustic drum sounds and companies keep raising the bar to achieve that standard. And that would also include breath synths, like the Yamaha WX5, etc. Those guys want real saxophones, trumpets, and flutes, etc, along with their synth sounds they have access to. 

If I am correct, the whole idea of synth technology was to simulate acoustic instruments, and give someone a wide array of those instruments. Moog came upon his thing and Emerson made Lucky Man come alive. But no one expects these timbres to sound like acoustic instruments. They are electronic sounds, which make up a very large share of current sounds in modern music. There can be no argument there.

While each drummer is different, and even their approach to time can be a little different, they strike their instrument. Because of that, alone, every piece of synthesized music they play will have that nature to it. It creates a limitation. If they want to, or do not mind that limitation in creating the music they play, that's all well and good. But until I behold a one man band playing creative 4 limb drumming, creating the kind of bass lines Jaco played, while doing a piano solo or other instrument solo, a la the very talented people out there, the concept remains a "novelty" to me. Stiff. And, as you say, there are lots of novelty acts out there making their livings. And you and I can go way back to Carl Palmer's days of wearing a hot mask all night, and the Beach Boys employing a Theramin. It all ends up getting a piece of the pie. It's a big world. And I am certain the possibility of playing something a three piece rock band plays is quite doable in the sense of employing simpler musical passages. I just have not yet beheld the one man band drummer pulling off the kind of stuff that involves that interaction of different musicians in a convincing way. It is strike and pause, strike and pause, strike and pause type of sound.  Unless a Pad sound weaves in and out, of course.

Guys like David Arkenstone do their thing and it sounds great. I own some of his CDs. And others. They make CDs. They make a living. They may even play out live with all their mechanics and technology. But what he does still sounds like one musician to me. It's a novelty. To me. I do not think the one man band will ever threaten the existence of groups, not that anyone has set out to do that. I know they haven't. They see a new field of expression with new technology. Just as the invention of synths has not threatened full size orchestras. But I do believe the one man band concept will someday crest and reach its limit. I may be very wrong, and it may be a ways into the future, but given human nature, I believe I am correct. Human beings like interaction. We are social creatures. It's why from ancient times to now, in every single society known to man, groups are formed, organizations, clubs, societies, fellowships, bodies of one kind or another. People will grow weary of watching one guy "do it all," or listening to the same. Doesn't mean one cannot make their mark, though.

Ah, well, a little controversy here on the board is healthy, I think. And Orb, your points have not fallen on blind eyes. What you do is very good. I'm not saying it isn't. Not at all. It's very inventive. And for eight years you have made a living doing what you do. Vince has. Tony Verderosa. Maybe Ed Uribe. I don't know much about him. Others out there. One of the guys playing malletKAT does solo gigs for a living. I've watched all his posted vids. Heck, I even did a semi-one man band thing for the contest. I am not saying it isn't fun or interesting or viable in the music industry. I know those who do it are very serious about what they do. As Vince says, even in a band concept, the edrummer can bring alot to the table. But, it will never be able to recreate what individual musicians bring to the table in a band or group, orchestra, or whatever. That is the limitation I see.
 
No offense meant, at all.

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#54 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 11, 2009, 10:15:06 AM
Vince, I listened to a bunch of things on your site. Not my cup of tea, musically, but I catch your meaning of what can be done. Still, can the one man band pull off what your guitarist did? I don't see how it's possible. Talented guy. Not being into top 40 I have never heard Janet Jackson, so I have no way to compare. If you say you pegged it, I believe you.

Way back when I was a teen Lee Michaels and Frosty had their duo, organ and drums. Today it is Rod Morganstein and Jordan Rudess. Since Lee Michaels I have always liked the idea, though I have never done it. It seems to me to even create the interaction between two such musicians is rather impossible for the one man band drummer. Now, of course, genre of music comes into play, as you say, and top 40 is not the same as progressive or fusion. I realize that.

To the end that entirely new types of music might develop from a one man band approach, I have no doubt. And each omb will have their own sound and approach to composition. Hey, I know solo drums like I play is deadly boring to many drummers. Others get into it for various reasons. Even Terry Bozzio has a threshold of what he can do with four limbs. Same with all the leaders of independence playing. You can only humanly do so much with one hand while the other is playing an ostinato. To me, that is a novelty of sorts. Limiting, and can be taken just so far and it loses something after awhile.

What can I say? Have fun. Travel the road less traveled and see what develops. Certainly Alternate Mode will remain on the cutting edge for this type of endeavor.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 10:20:31 AM by REF »

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#55 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 11, 2009, 12:40:00 PM
  I feel your attitude has changed a bit.....I'm pretty sure by the results, assimilation musta started over a week ago!
    To end this end of discussion, All I know is guitar players and keyboard players can do solo gigs by themself. I am a drummer with little to no melodic talent, and can't sing.....I'm not the 'poster boy' for a drum solo act. You'll know that guy when you hear him....he's the guy that studied piano in high school and learned to sing and plays drums a little......I'm the guy that plays drums a lot, and I'm trying to sneak the other stuff in.
     My submitted solo stuff was from ten years ago, you should see where the act has come....no, no videos....but I will be doing another album and I'm singing on all the tunes. But I'll never be the poster boy, I'm just a guy that helped build the road to his house! (remember the gravel?)
Hopefully when you hear the new stuff, you'll find it more accessable.
BTW one other little thing.....people have screamed for years that e drums can't do vibes at all., just like you're saying the solo drum thing can't be done...e-vibes totally worthless in the opinion of many. To that I say: Have you seen Mario play vibes on a MKAT? Trust me when I say, not worthless!
   Thanks for the effort in checking out my stuff!
Vince

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#56 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 11, 2009, 01:05:23 PM
No, seriously, I have seen incredible vids of malletKATs. Mario does fabulous stuff, and I've seen others on youtube. I imagine pan players have said the same about epans. I will say, though, that edrums will never replace acoustic. Jean Luc Ponty plays a great electric violin, but he isn't going to let go of his acoustics any time soon. Same for guitarists, etc.

Hey, for all I know the future may see nothing BUT electronic devices. Who knows? Technology advances so rapidly. Like the guy Orb posted who makes air drums. Incredible. What comes next? Virtual ensembles, groups, bands, orchestras. There cannot be anything but new things coming, and coming quickly. Right now, though cymbals take a beating, if you ask me, and I shall miss my "family" of acoustic cymbals and specialty sounds.

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#57 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 11, 2009, 02:54:16 PM
Attempts to communicate between entities operating on different wave lengths or frequencies cannot always be facilitated.Some people see the world filtered through  'futuristic lenses' & some people view the world filtered through 'antiquated lenses'.This can result in communication breakdowns. Where some people see limitations,others see opportunity.  #1: Just exactly what 'acoustic instrument' was Keith Emerson trying to emulate in his solo in "Lucky Man" ? Also HE STOOD most of the time while performing,thus 'sacrificing' HIS FEET. I wonder why HE liked to stand while HE performed?  #2: My performance style is a result of viewing music from the perspective of an orchestral score. I view these 'stacked notes' from the perspective of  'aligned vertical columns' of notes. When different notes occur @ the same exact point in time,I do not need more than one trigger to perform the musical event (stacking technique).  This is one of MY basic concepts that I apply to MY programming/performance strategies. #3: With this approach I found that my pedals were more valuable used as constant controllers than trigger pedals. If desired I may still use these pedal as triggers when necessary. All four 'limbs' are needed to accomplish this. #4: Keyboards,'technically speaking' are percussion instruments.So I suppose they would have the same limitations as a (percussion style inst.) E-drummer or acoustic drummer.A keyboard player performs by strike & pause,strike & pause type of sound,like your example above. Same with ANY percussion inst. viewed from that perspective,is it then determined to be a limitation? #4: The Beach Boys used a theremin for 'novelty purposes' ??  I was under the impression they used it for it's unique sonic characteristics. I thought they did it in an attempt to break new sonic frontiers in response to some of the things The Beatles were doing around the same time. #5: In a 'one man approach' I cannot 'interact' with other musicians,being alone.I must search out other ways of' interacting' with sounds,controllers,mic input etc. #6 Have we changed our view of a 'novelty act that wears off' to 'one day this novelty will crest & wear out' type of outlook?  #7: stiff? canned?? Still trying to comprehend how sequencers are more 'natural sounding' than human performances using the same sound sources. I was under the impression that sequencers were being used in an effort to sound perfectly performed.Why did drum machines & sequencers offer 'humanizing functions' ? To then sound stiff & canned like as in your explaining?? #7 Just for general information: I have NEVER IN MY ENTIRE MUSICAL CAREER EARNED MY LIVING BEING A PERFORMER. #8: Redundant to mention again,but,One player of any style/genre will always be out performed by ANY ENSEMBLE adding more players to their line-up.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 10:40:10 AM by Orb Vroomer »

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#58 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 11, 2009, 04:48:38 PM
Attempts to communicate between entities operating on different wave lengths or frequencies cannot always be facilitated.Some people see the world filtered through  'futuristic lenses' & some people view the world filtered through 'antiquated lenses'.This can result in communication breakdowns. Where some people see limitations,others see opportunity. *******Well, that is certainly true. Although 'antiquated' seems a bit over the top considering this side of the communication owns 3 KATs, and synthesizers.  But, my feathers remain unruffled.  ;)


#1: Just exactly what 'acoustic instrument' was Keith Emerson trying to emulate in his solo in "Lucky Man" ? *******None that I know of. Wasn't trying to say he was. Exactly the opposite.

Also HE STOOD most of the time while performing,thus 'sacrificing' HIS FEET. I wonder why HE liked to stand while HE performed?  *******Well, he certainly wasn't the first keyboard player to stand up while playing. You'd have to ask him. I assume it's a matter of getting at all the keyboards he used on all sides of him. Of course, when I saw them a few times he always sat down to play his grand piano. I don't recall saying anything about your position while playing.

#2: My performance style is a result of viewing music from the perspective of an orchestral score. I view these 'stacked notes' from the perspective of  'aligned vertical columns' of notes. When different notes occur @ the same exact point in time,I do not need more than one trigger to perform the musical event (stacking technique).  This is one of MY basic concepts that I apply to MY programming/performance strategies. *******Okay.

#3: With this approach I found that my pedals were more valuable used as constant controllers than trigger pedals. If desired I may still use these pedal as triggers when necessary. All four 'limbs' are needed to accomplish this. *******Hence, the limitation of playing full spectrum drums. But if that's okay for you, that's cool. I noticed today, watching a bunch of omb vids, the necessity to keep musical passages going ties the hands of the drummer in not playing fills or whatever, unless they release themselves from keeping the 'music' going. They all seemed to be playing time, exclusively. Not saying that is a bad thing at all. Whatever floats ones boat. But it does speak to the issue of limitations, logically, does it not?  Which speaks to my basic concept of what the single person does in relation to a group sound. That may sound antiquated. To me it is just observation, regardless of genre.

#4: Keyboards,'technically speaking' are percussion instruments. So I suppose they would have the same limitations as a (percussion style inst.) E-drummer or acoustic drummer. A keyboard player performs by strike & pause,strike & pause type of sound,like your example above. Same with ANY percussion inst. viewed from that perspective,is it then determined to be a limitation? *******Fair point. Although synths are not percussion instruments. But, is not the articulation of playing melodic keyboards and its final result different than playing drums/percussion? The debate of what a piano is in the instrument family is antiquated. I have seen the arguments on both sides. I suppose the same argument exists for hammered dulcimer, though I have never come upon it. But the instrument family consists of more than keys. And is that not why manufacturers made pitch bend wheels for synths to articulate horns, woodwinds, guitars, etc?

 #4: The Beach Boys used a theramin for 'novelty purposes' ??  I was under the impression they used it for it's unique sonic characteristics. I thought they did it in an attempt to break new sonic frontiers in response to some of the things The Beatles were doing around the same time. *******Well, that might have been their reason, historically. I don't know exactly. I don't recall coming upon that reason anywhere. You may be right. But to the general public listening, it was a novelty, was it not? The thermin has YET to have a place in modern music, despite the few players of high regard. I rented a documentary on it some time back. It is still a novelty to the vast majority of people who have heard it. Theremin was a genius. But the instrument is still a novelty to most ears. If you do a goggle on them, there are all kinds of people into them. I almost got one years ago. It'll never be a flute and I except that. And a moog will never be anything but a moog. It does what it does, and not many keyboardists use them anymore, certainly not to the extent they were used. The Moog was a novelty when it came out. Emerson and then others, contributed to its standardization in music of that time in that genre. The Theramin is still a novelty.


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#59 Re: Video performances on youtube
June 11, 2009, 04:49:15 PM
#5: In a 'one man approach' I cannot 'interact' with other musicians,being alone. I must search out other ways of' interacting' with sounds,controllers,mic input etc. *******Okay. Although is that not apples and oranges to the discussion?  Or, proving my observation? Sorry if that sounds antiquated. And as you say, the challenge represents opportunity for you and others doing what they do.

#6 Have we changed our view of a 'novelty act that wears off' to 'one day this novelty will crest & wear out' type of outlook? Maybe if you pause & think through your thoughts about approaches before posting, your views would seem more consistent & there by more logical sounding. *******Well, that is a 'time will tell' situation. And my thoughts are consistent to me. One does not rule out the other. I believe it is basically saying the same thing in a different way. Again, I did not mean to offend you are anyone else, Orb. If I spoke too fast on anything it was to say I "knew" some feathers would be ruffled, when I did not know that for a fact. Nor could I assume, not knowing anyone here. I also stated technology keeps changing, and that will change the omb concept, as well. But that does not address the acceptance of the general public now or in the future, does it? 

#7: stiff? canned?? Still trying to comprehend how sequencers are more 'natural sounding' than human performances using the same sound sources. I was under the impression that sequencers were being used in an effort to sound perfectly performed.Why did drum machines & sequencers offer 'humanizing functions' ? To then sound stiff & canned like as in your explaining?? *******As I said, to me, David Arkenstone sounds like one musician to me. Big music, but limited by what keyboards do. Kitaro. Stuff done by Yanni without a band behind him. I mean, how many people got sick of drum machines in the 80s? Stiff, cold, lifeless. DEhumanizing for many. Just like much of the music, which musicians themselves admit to now. It all became INDUSTRY and MONEY, not art and music. I'm not saying your music sounds cold or lifeless. Far from it. Lots of energy and dynamics. I am saying I have yet to hear the omb concept pulled off to truly sound like individuals playing music - to me which I also stated. But at least sequencers can free up a single musician to the degree of adding to something, which they could not do otherwise. Someone like Gary Husband, who plays dynamite drums and keyboards, has major understanding of music theory and instruments of today, would still have a rather impossible time trying to do what his bands do, by himself. Be interesting to hear what he came up with if he went that route, though.

#7 Just for general information I have NEVER IN MY ENTIRE MUSICAL CAREER EARNED MY LIVING BEING A PERFORMER. *******Okay. And that was mentioned in one of your posts, wasn't it? Slipped my mind. You paint for a living. Would that everyone who loves music and plays an instrument could follow their passion and make a living at it. I doubt 2% of the world population make a living at their passion. That's a sad thing, really. Leaves most of the human race never fulfilling their true potential.

#8: Redundant to mention again,but,One player of any style/genre will always be out performed by ANY ENSEMBLE adding more players to their line-up. *******Right. So, just why HAVE you taken offense at any of my comments?


#9 I would NEVER wan't to offend ANY PARTICULAR PERSON SPECIFICALLY.....BUT..... Are wind instrument players 'LIMITED' by the fact that the only technique by which they perform is : BLOW-SUCK-BLOW-SUCK-BLOW-SUCK Huh?? *******Most definitely, if they tried to be a omb. And I have heard some great wind synth players. My wife has a WX5 set up. Of course, even their instruments are limited to single notes. So, yes, are they not limited? They could not hope to come close to what you do, unless, I suppose, they chained a dozen modules together and programmed every single one to different notes for chords and all.  But even then, the percussion would be a lost cause. They'd staccato spit themselves to death.

When two parties engage in a 'pissing contest' there is never a winner. All you end up with is a couple of losers wallowing in the puddle of stench left in the wake of these ill advised activities.*******Well, that was kind of strongly worded and not even close to my intent or attitude of communication in this discussion, Orb. C'mon now. I am obviously not trashing what you or anyone else is doing with their KATs and their music. My observations are just that, observations. I just posted on another thread a link to a guy on youtube using his DK in a omb piece of music. Mercy. I am not trying to start a range war here.

Final thoughts: Sometimes Kats are like cats. One strays into the 'common areas' of other cats', become protective of their territory,turn sideways,puff up their tails,hiss & sometimes as a last resort attempt to claw each others eyeballs out. Luckily,it usually looks & sounds a lot worse than it is. Un-ruffling my feathers as I wrote this. orb. ******Like you stated at the beginning, sometimes people see through different glasses and have reactions to things because they see red, not blue. I certainly have no territory to protect. I doubt anyone else here does, either. If someone wanted to breakdown what I do and state its positives and negatives, that's cool. It isn't as though there aren't plenty of flaws in what I do. Glad your feathers un-ruffled. I have honestly enjoyed this exchange. Peace.