Alternate Mode KAT Percussion Forum

Alternate Mode Website

News:

2 new live drumkat/keyboard duo's & 1 midi data glove solo song @ UNC (Read 7628 times)

Orb Vroomer

more
  • *****
  • KAT Diety
  • Posts: 522
  • It's katalicious.Go ahead & try one.You'll like it
Instruments: none listed
I finally got the upload to YT from a concert on 3/25/92. (I know it's old,but it's very different from Orb).
We were invited by a student in the music department to come to UNC,Ashville to show them the 'midi data trigger glove'. My friend Chris B. designed & built the glove.He used to play an original 'song'. It was not really used as a 'drum trigger' , but as a 'music trigger'.The glove was input to a midi kiti made by AM.

So we put together a 25 minute concert of original midi triggered music.We also did a DIY workshop/lab in ( the late great ) Prof. Robert Moog's electronic music class.It was for the students -- I don't thing Mr. Moog needed to see how we were making simple piezo trigger pads --it was for the students to make inexpensive trigger pads.--  & I don't think Mr. Moog  was very impressed with our simple little trigs & pads.But he did come to our concert (I think he got bored & left ).I didn't see him after the show.

Chris also did a lecture:" How to make $ in your home studio".We were housed & fed by students,parents & staff.We traveled from St. Louis to Ashville at our own expense."Art for art's sake".

The 12 min long 'symphonic" piece we performed was composed by Chris B. in the weeks leading up to the concert.It is a good example of what could be done playing midi instruments live --with 2 musicians.We never named the song ,but I was thinking about calling it " Pixels from an Expedition". We also did a 'jungle drums/ sound effects' song that is not yet uploaded. It was a bit of a 'time filler'.We were struggling to put the show together in a couple months & needing more material, we had to "jam our way through".....not enough time......where have I heard that before ?

The symphonic style piece was too long & big of a file for YT,so I had to chop it in half.Movements 1 & 2 were a continuous song.Please take the time to comment on the composing & performing.It is a rather long piece - so get some popcorn or a beer or something & then watch it.All feedback is welcome.Tell me what you like or don't like.I promise I won't be offended by any 'novel' comments'. I am proud of this show & I hope you will be proud of what we did with our Kat controllers. It was my VERY FIRST LIVE PERFORMANCE on my DRUM KAT !! Thanks for watching.

Here's my channel : http://www.youtube.com/orbvroomer
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 10:50:42 AM by Orb Vroomer »

pljones

more
  • *****
  • KAT Diety
  • Posts: 1303
  • NINJAMmer
Instruments: trapKAT
Just watched all three from UNC -- the symphonic piece was particularly interesting.

Composition: I don't know how I'd classify the piece; it certainly had a number of different segments; occasionally, there was reference from one segment to a theme in another but this didn't happen very often (or not so I noticed - could just be me, I'm not the best listener and my memory is rubbish), so it didn't feel like a "classical" piece where a story unfolds.  However, there was an underlying theme that was more than just the instrumentation and style: it was more as if a number of separate incidents were occurring but against a common backdrop.  Had the piece been longer, perhaps these could have been drawn together.  (My music teacher always liked a story that had a start, a middle and an end.)

Performance: Hopefully the audience must had a better view than the fixed camera, which didn't respond well to the low lighting level..!  It was very hard to pick out on the glove performance exactly what movements of the glove were happening, so some of the (techie!) enjoyment was lost.  It looked good though and I liked the approach to treating the backdrop as the instrument, rather than the glove.  In the symphonic piece, again, the techie here wanted to see your kit!  I could see a lot of stuff being triggered by hitting with sticks/mallets - were there keyboards or anything else, or were the more complex parts just carefully arranged?  Either way, it was impressive to have that amount of sound with that amount of control from two performers.

Orb Vroomer

more
  • *****
  • KAT Diety
  • Posts: 522
  • It's katalicious.Go ahead & try one.You'll like it
Instruments: none listed
Thanks for taking the time to view,pl. Peter ? Composing a song this long ,or longer can be a great challenge. I have trouble with beg. mid & end even trying to arrange Orb..But this was done by Chris.I was more of a sideman.I could never compose a piece like that by myself.And he wrote it rather quickly,too.We rehearsed for about three weeks.Every day I showed up,& Chris would have the next section ready. Then it turned into "remember that 3rd part ? that's 2nd now & the old 2nd is now 5th." And no conductor to keep us together.We NEVER played it all the way through until the show.We do have a final rehearsal DAT tape mix.

The camera just happened to be there & some college guy did that for us (& himself). The mix is off the camera mic @ the back of a medium sized theater.I can't believe it sounds as good as it does,considering.But some subtle sounds are lost along with some low end.And the mic compression is real noticeable @ times.Two guys with Kats & keys are dwarfed on a large stage.The lighting looked cool.That was an after thought & so was the 'glove on panel' deal.I don't know what Chris had in mind before we got there.
Too bad there wasn't another roaming camera for close-ups.And a DAT or something.

The gear was- Me: Drum Kat,4 Pole pads,2(my homey) pads, Mapper, Rolnd R8-M, TX-7, Mirag sampler, Proteus XR, Ales Quadrav, Rolnd M-120 mixer
                     Chris: Drum Kat, Mapper, 4 Polepads ,4 (my homey)pads, Krzweil K2000, Ensoni EPS 16+, Ymaha TX-802, Rolnd D550, Emu Proteus XR  (& expander),Lexico LXP-1,Ymaha SPX-90, Rland M120 mixer, & AM midi kiti & trigger glove. CORRECTION : glove had 7 trigs - not 9. I kept thinking 9 because of the 9 kiti inputs.I stand corrected,sir.

The control of sounds for 2 people was one thing we wanted to demo.Thanks for pointing that out.I got to play: chimes,sleigh bells,claves,blocks,bongos,congas,snare,toms,cymbals,gongs,rev cymbals,timpani,harp,tuned bells,concert BD,cellos,violin,brass,orchestra hits....I think that's all..I'll re-check..ooh...just sticks & bare hands (Chris played a few times on DK with his hands)...& mallet SOUNDS..but no mallets...kinda hard to see ,though.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 11:59:27 PM by Orb Vroomer »

pljones

more
  • *****
  • KAT Diety
  • Posts: 1303
  • NINJAMmer
Instruments: trapKAT
There's some big mallets used on the right - huge fat furry heads on 'em ;D.  Like kettle drums get struck with.  Or am I seeing things?

Composition is really tough: I can jam but actually sitting down and writing music?  Ah... that was hard work at school and I've forgotten most of what I was taught (ugh, only 25 years ago).  I've done a few tunes (on my soundclick page) but mostly they're keyboard jams that got heavily edited into shape, nothing fancy -- done whilst saving for my TK, mostly :D.  Since I found NINJAM, I've rather taken the easy path.  For the time available to the two of you, it's a really good piece and sounds like it could have developed into something bigger, given more time.

If that mix is off the camera mic, the camera guy knew how to get a good sound out of that hall!  I'll forgive the camera not moving!!

Thanks for the gear list. :)

Orb Vroomer

more
  • *****
  • KAT Diety
  • Posts: 522
  • It's katalicious.Go ahead & try one.You'll like it
Instruments: none listed
Your not kidding about the furry mallets ,are you? Something over my head ? Like Benny Hill ?

Chris was striking some pads & his DK barehanded at times.With that slightly 'distorted' lighting effect ,it might have fooled your eyes.
I know you didn't mean "mullets".  It was 92 & I cut off my "mullet" years earlier,in the 70's, baby...It was furry one time when I got a bad perm !! But it was groovy...baby.....& the chicks dug it....yeah.. baby !!

I just played my keyboard for 3 years leaning oldies & about 80 Beatles songs.Used DP like a tapeless studio & tried to play ALL the tracks by myself.Minus vocals.It sounds horrible -compared to the Beatles ,but I learned a lot about comp. & chording,etc.Plus I learned a lot of great songs that I always wanted to play.Finally learned "Martha My Dear".I always loved the "White album". Very experimental.And of course Magical & Sgt. Peppers.Of course they're all great.

Chris (I think) might have tweaked the audio after the fact.But he had something good enough to start with -it wasn't all distorted or anything.It is pretty dag good -- for a camera mic.It belonged to UNC -- they must have bought a good one. There is one little zoom,but the camera was un-manned !! On quiet parts -the lower dynamics can be heard surging -- it's the built-in compression on the camera mic.My tympani were a lot fatter in the hall,though.The PA was provided by some local sound guys.It was just one 15' & 1" horn per side. Small for that hall,but adequate.A good system might have ruined the mic input.

I'll go check out your soundclick page.Thanks for the feedback !!

vindrums

more
  • Guest
Instruments: none listed
   So I finally got to see! Lot's of good influences and some real good sections...Edgard V would have been just bubbling proud of some of the beginning....a little Debussy action later...now I mean this in a good way: the very worst of what you guys did was way better than any yanni  :P The glove thing came off better than I would've imagined. Overall very good, tremendous for that year, I give it four popcorns and a full beer!
Vince

Orb Vroomer

more
  • *****
  • KAT Diety
  • Posts: 522
  • It's katalicious.Go ahead & try one.You'll like it
Instruments: none listed
Thanks,my friend.Chris gets all the writing credit,though.Always cool to be involved with talented people.Chris has some great musical influences.When he was in town it fueled a "battle of the triggers". He made the glove. I made LISA. Made the WEEL. He made some poles (with piezos). No matter how far I mellow ,I guess I'll always have more edge than Yanni kind of material. I do like some new age stuff. There is definitely good music in that category.

? ... 4 popcorns (extra butter) & a full (pint of imported) beer ?....for a trailer....my video guy has located some missing Orb live footage....several....& some with lights.....coming to a YT station near you......soon....if he's not too busy......

REF

more
  • Guest
Instruments: none listed
Exactly how did the glove work? Maybe you already said. Five fingers. Were they just sequenced so that every touch produced the necessary changes?

The other music was interesting, too. Was pretty intense when you both (I think both) were doing some cadence work.

Orb Vroomer

more
  • *****
  • KAT Diety
  • Posts: 522
  • It's katalicious.Go ahead & try one.You'll like it
Instruments: none listed
Thanks for watching,Ray !

Chris's glove had 7 piezos on the isatoner glove.One on each finger tip & the other 2 were on the palm or 'heel' part of the glove (hand).Those two could be hit by pulling the fingers back & leading with the palm.We were using silicone or liquid nails (heavy metal version of silicone) on most of our DIY's.But on the glove he tried some dentist style 2 part epoxy (his dad is a dentist). I remember because the chemical reaction produced heat.And he glued them on while the glove was on his hand--did not want any stretching after the fact.That made for some discomfort.It was mind over matter so as not to rip off the glove during the heat release.Luckily Chris has a lot of willpower & mind strength.He has a degree as a nuclear physicist from Washington U. After graduating near the top of his class,the military industrial complex were all vying to employ him.Not wanting to build the next "Alan Parson's Project" he got into computer music & computer animation (about 1984-the year of the Mac).(Not "The year of the kat"...that came later ! ).So he traded in his Dr. Evil lab coat & made some groovy music, ala Austin Powers..yeah baby !! Mr. Bigglesworth approved (that's right gmbydmit,I caught that).Muhahaha..Everybody join in.....Muhahahahaha..Muhahaha....

As for the 'cadence' section. The part where I do the little 'marching' or 'military' snare riff ? After the stop,I start that off.I play all the chord changes in that section: snare,tympani,& an orch. hit.That freed Chris up for his keyboard parts.If you watch close ,he hits some orch cymbals & timps, barehanded,& on kat pads.Had to switch from keys to pads quickly-no time to pick up sticks.And if you watch me carefully (OK ,my shadow) you can barely see how I move to different trigs for the changing chords......pljones thought he saw some mallets (on the right).I think it was Chris'  fist that pl saw.

We were both using the midi "Mapper". (midi processor).We had alternating notes ,& more,BEFORE those features were implemented in the newer drum kat revs. So like the alts ,that are 'sequences' ready to trigger,so were our 'alts'. So alts & stacks were 'sequenced' in the programing of the glove.Like the kat,if you don't false trigger any pads,the order of notes is the same every time.Without those features,the glove would have been WAY less of an instrument.And Chris was a bass player (he faked his way into a cover band I was in-never played in a band before that audition.Another indicator of his vast talents & genius!)
And he never picked up drumsticks ,until our rehearsals for this show ! In a short 2 months he mastered the 16th note patterns he needed to play !! Too bad (for me ) he works @ Pixar. I'm pretty sure he makes more $ than Orb, or my sound co., or my lighting co., or my day job, or cover bands,etc. He worked in the genetics lab @ WU.For a professor who WRITES the genetics text books for other colleges.WU was a pioneer in completing the full genome sequence of humans.Even back when he was in college in the early 80's,WU was molding the future.And he was there,making synthetic insulin.

I had to brag about Chris here.Anybody who's ever worked with super talented musicians/people knows how cool that is.Savor every second of those opportunities.Take advantage of those times.They might only come around once in a life time.Chris is not replaceable as a duo partner.But I guess nobody is.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 05:02:49 PM by Orb Vroomer »