[REF]

BTW, I should mention I am a relatively new guy around here, too. I used to bounce in and out years ago, but not until recently have I been around most every day.

[Orb Vroomer]

Again,we will enter the world of music from a PHILOSOPHICAL AAAANNNNDDD A FACTUAL point of view.

I will make every possible effort to separate the co-mingling of facts & opinions. It might not be completely perfect,but I will try to keep fact (F), separate from opinion (O).
Since the theremin has been mentioned a few times in here,allow me to elaborate on some common mis-perceptions .
(F):Theremin (thereminovox) : Early electronic melody instrument in which hand movements interface with electronic sound waves, allowing for the spatial control of pitch & dynamics,invented by Leon Theremin in 1920. ( Webster's NWD of Music p. 541).
(F): He was a physicist,astronomer,cellist & studied music theory. At Petrograd Physico-Technical Inst. was director of it's Laboratory of Electrical Oscillators (1919). Demoed a aetherophone -proto of theremin,there. Therenmin (1920) was demoed for Lenin, who was convinced that the electrification of Russia would ensure the success of communism.
(F): (1927): demoed in Germany,France &US. Pat. in1928. Presented @ Carnegie Hall ,ensemble of 10 (1930).  First electrical symph. orch, conducted by Stoessel incl. theremin fingerboard & keyboard insts. (Carnegie 1932). Most famous student (& best player) Clara Rockmore. Also invented rhythmicon capable of playing different rhythms simultaneously  or separately  (conceived by Cowell),  & an automatic musical inst. for playing directly from specially written scores (constructed for Grainger). (sound familiar??) (like MIDI ? )
(F): W/ theorist Joseph Schillinger est. an acoustical lab, formed ass. with various scientific & artistic members (Einstein,amateur violinist).
(F): Einstein passed on the op. to study the relationship between music,color,& geometric & stereometric figures geometries.
(F): Experiments by Stokowsky trying to effect a sonic increase among certain insts. in Phil. Orch. (esp. DBL. basses) abandoned with complaints of deleleterios effects on their abdominal muscles, perceived to be from sound waves produced by theremins.
(F): (1939) return to Russia,difficulties with Soviet gov. & detained. Forced to research by Sovs. & studied electronics & sound.
(F): (1964) Prof. of acoustics Univ. of Moscow.
(F): (1989) allowed to travel to Paris & Stockholm
(F): (1993) return to US in documentary film "the Electronic Odyssey of Leon Theremin"
(O): Very few players have mastered the theremin. Was the first synth. Is misunderstood by most (see above post).
(O): Not as significant as Cristofori's "gravecembali col piano e forte" (Piano)
(F): (1711) Cristofori had 3 built. His mechanical action is almost identical to our present version.
(F): Go to (web site) Metropoliton Museum of Art,NY. where 1 of the 3 is on display for view. sorry-no link.
(O): A 'VERY vague' comparison might be: Critofori VS. modern grande piano, is like theremin VS Moog, is like octopad VS. Turbokat. (very vague).
(O): There are a few players today who CAN make beautiful music with a theremin .(hard to find,but do exist.)
(O): Lack of widespread use,competent players,etc. does not reduce this HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT INVENTION TO A NOVELTY.
(F): Ignorance of one's understanding does not translate into reducing it's importance in musical history,or reduce it to a 'NOVELTY ITEM'.
(F): Attaching words & labels to these things does in no way reduce the significance.Widespread commercial use does not reduce significance.
(F): Thinking in a manner as examples described above is what leads to modernization of current devices,as well as new inventions.




(F): This information is in: Webster's New World Dictionary Of Music. Copyright C 1998 by Schirmer Books

[REF]

(F)     nov·el·ty
         Pronunciation:
          \ˈnä-vəl-tē\
         Function:
         noun
         Inflected Form(s):
         plural nov·el·ties
         Etymology:
         Middle English novelte, from Anglo-French novelté, from novel
         Date:
         14th century

1 : something new or unusual
2 : the quality or state of being novel : newness
3 : a small manufactured article intended mainly for personal or household adornment —usually used in plural
4 : something (as a song or food item) that provides often fleeting amusement and is often based on a theme —often used attributively

(O) Your feathers seem still ruffled. Orb. I feel badly about this. It's just music, Bro, whatever that means to anyone. I am not certain how my stating the term "limited" brought things to this point, seeing I have complemented you, commended you, and overall applaud your efforts. So, I will state again - TO ME

[Orb Vroomer]

It is always nice when we do not dispute the facts (F). That definitely can cause arguments. It doesn't appear you & I are in dispute of the facts here,as I don't see you challenging my  (F) definitions,as well as, I will not dispute your (F) definitions of 'novel' .
The (O) opinions are interpretational, (I don't know if that's actually a word-the spell checker doesn't seem to like it,but I think you understand the meaning I intend ) of course.
By your def. #1: new & unusual seems to be 2 completely different meanings (not your fault,it's just the authors who did made that deduction).
By your def. #2 : being novel or newness definitely sounds like the first part of #1,but not the second part of #1, (once again,not your fault,it's the authors multiple meanings that can lend to some confusion).
By def. #3: right up to & through the word "personal" it would be a quite accurate description of LISA,if it continued on to say: "personal usage" instead of "personal adornment". LISA is definitely a device I use in a practical manner (O) , to me. In my instance it is definitely NOT used as
an "adornment". (no dispute with YOU on that,either).
BY def #4; (I should maybe have said authors,not YOUR on that these examples) I guess that seems accurate,(minus the food part), & I would hope not fleeting.
So I do believe we have agreed on our examples of definitions..
I will ALWAYS respect your's & everybody's (O).
A theremin is DEFINITELY NOT NEW--however calling it "unusual" is quite accurate.That's what I thought about trying to view the 2 words/definitions as synonyms.


 
So I would say "Can we agree to disagree on any matters of (O) ?. My answer is "YES" to that  .
A car can have antique plates after 20 years,so I'm not sure if a Kat is exactly "NEW",being around for so long at this point.So I don't know if people consider Kat products "NOVEL" by definition.I certainly don't view Kat products as novel. (O).

My mistake (I will thank you for alerting me to OTHER def.) --was in my head, I perceived "NOVEL" as ONLY maybe def. #3 & #4 .That was MY fault,not yours.
Improper interpretation by me made it sound like a put down,which I do not believe was your intentions,after closer examination.
Not productive to go in circles over (O). I don't see any sense in that.
My LISA trig. certainly is not in a category with the theremin or Moog or Kat. That would sound completely ridicules.
I heard you mention having seen the documentary on the theremin. I thought (O) you were a bit dismissive with you thoughts (O) on that.When you look @ Leon Theremin's resume,or his role in the history of musical advancements,he made many very important breakthrough in many areas.
Also Moog was very much like that,maybe even more so. I do not interpret Moog a novel item either.(O).
Until today,I never read the entry on Theremin.When I came upon the 'rhythmicon',mentioned,it wasn't referenced in my book.If anybody knows please advise.
I'm still trying to find out if it was some mechanical device (like a player piano,or a mechanical music box (circa 1200,perfected shortly after the invention of clockwork). Where the yellow face has been inserted,it appeared to me the explanation of a rhythmicon sounded like it could be one of the first versions of a device that had some way of being 'programmed' or read some type of a 'file', in a different/parallel sense of our current standard format (MIDI). This I must now investigate further. WOW. this isn't a waste of time ,I learned something new here!! Also the "playing different simultaneously or separately" reference, sure started to sound like advanced functions of Kat or 'note stacks'  or something! Maybe I'm way off base,but I'm determined to investigate that further.

Closing thought: As stated above : Can we agree to disagree on matters of (O) ? My answer is "YES". Am I correct in assuming YOUR answer is "YES", as well ? waiting for a reply.    Apologies & peace to you & all . orb.  Version 1.2

[vindrums]

   Rhythmicon was called the first drum machine, Theremin was commishioned to build it. If I remember right, a spinning disk with holes was the file type.
     I already told you my feelings for LISA. Need.
Vince

[Orb Vroomer]

So I WAS on the right track speculating about the rhythmicon. I guess I'm not as dummm as I loooook. Can you believe that there  were perfected clockworks & mechanical music boxes in 1200  !! These facts completely BLOW MY !#$#$@$%^@%^* MIND !!!!  orb.

[REF]

Indeed, agreeing to disagree is always agreeable to me.

You know, if I could do what you guys do, I would do it. And I would have some fun. But, the way I play drums, the way I interpret the music through the instrument, would be limited. I would be a different musician.  For me it would never rise past being a diversion or 'novelty' as a personal endeavor. Although I'm sure Vince would love to convert my thinking on that. 

The "one man band" concept goes way back to the 13th or 14h century. By definition, I believe it was and is a "novelty." This does not mean anything other than that. It isn't a negative, by definition. Perhaps the word is interpreted more as a clown act by some in our day, but that is not the history. The first people who tried to a play flute and a drum at the same time were serious about their endeavors. Every person who has built upon the concept over the centuries has been serious about pulling it off, even carnival performers. It's a very tricky thing to do. Requires alot of coordination. What today's omb does is, of course, light years from what previous people have done. 20th century electronic devices make it far more developed and complex. Yet, the concept is the same. One man - many sounds - all at the same time. The very fact the the omb has been around for six or seven centuries testifies to its NOT being 'fleeting' as it were. Still, it is not something that has become a normal or standard approach to music, and time will tell if it ever does. Certainly MIDI has changed things dramatically, and skies the limit for those into the concept. I now own a TrapKAT, an old DrumKAT, and an old MalletKAT, and a handful of sound modules. Logically, I suppose it would be possible to do some incredible things with it all. But, for me, it would take away from what I do as a drumist. Getting past that aspect perhaps I am being too closed minded.

This is one of the reasons I wish there were many, many more video examples of the omb concept. Alot of what I have heard thus far (not all, but alot), as far as drummer/percussionists (not new age keyboard artists), has been either recreation of ancient or cultural drums and percussion, or kind of spacey stuff. The Ed Uribe piece is certainly a more traditional piece of music. Akira Jimbo does traditional fusion and show tunes, albeit with his combination of acoustic and electronic set up. Some of the stuff Vince has shared off his site has that element, a la Janet Jackson, and some of Orb's music has it in there, like Islands, etc. Being able to sound like ten percussionists is really cool, and being able to sound like an inter- galactic tech ensemble can be interesting. New forms (or revisited forms) of what humanity calls music comes forth all the time. Who can know what a omb player will come up with tomorrow? I just have doubts of its ... I don't know ... ultimate staying power or growth beyond novelty? Perhaps KATs will change all that in a major way, beyond the steps already taken. Time will tell.

My thing is ... Play On.

[REF]

Here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXMuWi0dUBc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_man_band

[vindrums]

    i know you're having fun tweaking buttons. (here in the forum) I haven't chimed in on the novelty issue...yet....
   I hate being considered novelty. On the internet when I started my site, many places insisted on calling me a novelty, and I hated that! I want/wanted to be in with the other solo acts, the guitars, the pianos, the midi wind instrument players with their sequencers. But like I said before, I'm a drummer trying to stretch...if I play every song I know for you...maybe 40. Some of these talented piano and guitar and sequencer players can play like 4000 tunes, and fake their way through another 1000 or so. That's the first place I chalk a strike. Then I have been strangly adverse to using loops and sequencers. So I've made this thing, and sort of forced it into the novelty range.....I still hate it, but I'm worn down after hearing it since the beginning.
   But someday, someone with a strong voice and good melodic background will come along and will take these primitive rocks and e-stones we've been working on and they will be a soloist, and they will be allowed to play with the other musicians in the soloist catagory.
    i liked the omb example REF, but if that motha can't do Mission Impossible on demand, then he too is a novelty. (kidding big time!)
    REF I know in my heart, that we'll see you stretching on next years vids! Maybe you won't be a solo act, but you'll be stretching. And you get the designation: 1 of 1
Vince

[Orb Vroomer]

I think I must have interpreted it as your 'clown' example-mistakingly-so to no fault of your's, After re-establishing communication it is much easier to clear up what you meant. Nothing productive about nit-picking down to the smallest of  details,like I may have started to do.You can probably understand,now ,how it rather infuriated me thinking that way. I've put so much effort & years into my craft, & I felt be-littled by it.
You have a pretty good understanding of what it takes to program & perform in such a manner,since you have this gear & understand the capabilities of what CAN be done. A lot of my synth sounds have been meticulously edited.If you take a Proteus module out of the box your unlikely to hear many of my sounds.I'm not going to tell you to become a synth tweaker, like me.Heck,I hate to do it--it's highly time consuming.
I still think you should consider adding ANY of even the smallest amount of new elements into your drumming. The pieces I liked of your's were very similar to grooves I have used as starting points. You are already doing  'tuned' type playing in some of those examples & you have a clear understanding of phrasing & being able to make it more interesting than just a bunch of really fast rolls & other 'drum solo guy' things. The thing about doing drum solos is this: they are really only good for a small segment of any show. That's why most 'drummers' have to be in a band type ensemble of some sort.  Guys like Niel Peart & Carl Palmer can do 20 or 30 minute drum solos,only because of their greatness &  most drummers (almost all) could never pull that off.After about 2 min. your wife might say something like "I'm going out to the lobby ,do you want me to bring you a soda when I come back?" " When I hear the band start back up I'll be back".In fact YOU may even go out for a break,too!
If you still don't want to change I can easily accept that fact.I would still believe you might be missing out,but I wouldn't be bothered ,
or hold it against you. Maybe I could let you hear some MP3 files of some 'jungle drumming' as I call it, & you would see some EASY elements you could add to what your already doing.
People can be intimidated by the complexity of it all.Just remember--I didn't all of a sudden piece my 'Vroomulator' together all @ once.It was more of a slow evolution.You probably did not buy all your controllers on the same day.You slowly built up your rig, I'm assuming.Same with my set ups & 'songs'. I piece it together more slowly.The longer I worked from my established methods,the easier it became to more quickly build complex set ups.
You could take what you have now & EASILY make it sound similar to say, a movie soundtrack. The hardest part is ready to go.

Let me tell you how I started Orb Vroomer. It was basically a DARE !! I ran my mouth off about how I could do this & how I could do that.Some people got tired of my TALK & said "shut up & DO IT ,if that's the way you feel" !!!! So I did. And now here I am.   Neatly groomed & unruffled.    orb.

[REF]

Ahahaha. That's priceless.

Well, the entire idea obviously intrigues me or I wouldn't want to watch all the vids there are out there. And yes, I do feel completely and utterly overwhelmed by all this equipment, which is why I am about to purchase a set od DVDs to learn how to play acoustic guitar. Something grounding about acoustic instruments. And hopefully I will learn things about theory to help with overall composition. Heck, I am totally frustrated I cannot figure out how to make this EMU Procussion work. Pretty cool sounds. I also have a Proteus 1 and a Proteus 2 I got off ebay (which also find dead brain space), as well as a Roland JV1010 which is easier, and a Korg X5DR which I love. Recently I got a Kurz PC2R for the malletKAT. Love that, but it is much more difficult to understand than the PC88 I had some years back. Then I have my TDW20 and the first synth I ever got, my Boss DR 330, which is really easy to use. Lots of learning curves though. Tons of manuals. I am still trying to understand how both the malletKAT and DK work. Right now I just plug and play. It is literally all I can do right now. I managed to program notes on the DK for the contest vids. Otherwise the thing is a mystery to me. I have not dug very far into the new TK. I just set up different kits, but no note stacking or anything yet.

I remember when I got my first computer. Bought it used from someone. It say on my desk for three months untouched I was so intimidated by it. Now, I am able to do publishing programs, etc. Still much, if not most I do not understand, but I make it work. I am fairly intimidated by the KATs and some of the modules. I put it all together so my wife and I can ultimately do some playing and recording. She's having a real difficult time with her WX5. So, it's a territory that is not easy for us.

This is why someone needs to do some DVD tutorials of the omb concept on KATs. As I said, my wife loves Pans and even mentioned me getting a PanKAT. Man, I would love that, too. That's in the future though. I have so much on my plate now with the rest of this stuff. But if someone made a set of tutorials on how to get some basic things constructed in the omb field, I would certainly get them and attempt to apply the knowledge.

[Orb Vroomer]

Now we are getting somewhere ! #1 don't sell yourself short !! When I watched your videos, I would wonder: A) what was that cymbal sample ? that sounded cool. b) I wonder which module that was? c) what are his effects ? d) I like that pattern,good phrasing d)When is he going to use the DK ? e)this guy is clean & articulate f)I can't quite make out what those units are to his left g)Is that a mallet Kat over there almost in the shot ? h) Is he going to do more tuned patterns ? i)from the sound of it, is it tuned ? or just a whole lot of toms ? j)Is he just gonna kick into some regular beats & fills ? k) does he play in a band right now ? l)Doesn't sound rusty or anything.....He must play often.......  I could keep going,but I haven't viewed the AM site lately & can't remember everything from all your entries.  But I remembered a lot I liked....( This is orb V.2 or probably V.3    yesterday, orb more likely would have told you " I didn't like ANY of your stuff". Stupid how anger can alter our personalities & make us lie & do things we normally wouldn't.

For Proteus,or DK I could help. Just give me some ?'s & maybe a link to a manual (busy work) . Or just tell me what functions ,on what pages.Vince certainly seems like a helper guy. Just because guys are doing advanced stuff doesn't mean they can't guide you thru some basics. There are MANY, MANY functions I've never used on my DK. I just use what I need, until I need more  & then add on. I bet every other guy in the contest was thinking the same way I was above while we watched each other.
 
I'll blow my 'genius' status with this 1--- I didn't even use e-mail (until this forum..browser problems..no one to help me) @ all & I've had my current Mac since Nov. of 2005 (third 1..,a couple of hand me downs). I've had digital performer & macs since about 1990. I can do a lot with DP because I've had versions forever. But the manual is 1000 pages long,filled with functions I've never used.Like my DK I use what I use, until I need more. I'm not a computer guy. Lot's of people are like this--they are good at what THEY do.Just like you ....sound familiar ?....
Guitar is a better choice than keyboards, for skill level. Beginners always can play tunes quicker than a key player.I was playing a while back ,but I have some numb finger issues from guitar -- but I can play my DK & keys forever with no problem. Is not a callous deal . Some type of work related deal that gets more stirred up sometimes. So.I do what I do--so-- I taught myself guitar voice-ings on my keys.Bought Fab Four software (only comp. sounds I have) & started playing a 1966 Martin D-28 guitar (sample) from a keyboard. It sounds awesome--incredibly dynamic when played correctly. Get a chord book @ GC & it will have 1000 chords & cost about 15 or 20,don't recall. Go to AZ Chords on web & down load word & chords--you don't need the finger charts because you have the chord book & you'll catch on with just ,.Am..F#..C7...etc. look for songs you know & like..find the easier chords to play & then find songs without a lot of changes...there everywhere..I said earlier learn 'Free Fallin" by Petty... 3 chords... 1 part ...w/ a small breakdown that still hardly changes...I'll bet YOU could play it on YOUR Kat !.It's not as hard as you think. Lucky Man has 4 chords .don't try to pick it like Greg..just strum & have fun...Verse--G (G 9th),D.....Chorus--Am,Em,D ....these songs are everywhere..you don't have to play it like the artist..it will still sound good strumming along..  (there are,I think, 2 acoustics on it,just trying to keep it simple).

Is there a more out of control thread like this in here anywhere? YT Videos....What? ....Here I am, a 'drummer' mainly...telling another drummer a method of learning guitar ?    What ?... theremins analyzed--in detail  (perpetrated by  me, to make a point )...in a e-drum forum.?.....this thread keeps morphing....I can't control it as well as my kat...I have NO idea where this is leading...

As for learning modules,changing modules,we ALL hate that . I changed from an R-8, DX-7,Mirage,octopad to a  DK turbo ,Em-U XL Turbo,Orbit (like the sound of that module ! ) ,Korg MS2000BR... all my same (early) songs...have to redo all the sounds on every map..every layer....every DK song...I HAAAATE that ! &  when the current units fail, more changes...all over again..So I have a lot of material .....songs I seq..play...guitar songs ... But Orb has probably only 2 hours.....lost songs...ones that never got reprogrammed....not enough time....sound familiar.....gotta go to work....I'm too .......
tired tonight....get up early.....ever felt like this ?

If it wasn't for my video guy baling me out @ the last min....sound familiar.....grand plans....&... all he did was edit/format/upload......tasks I can't do...like you maybe ?...sound familiar.... I still had to tech 2 cameras & man the audio level all by myself...that is NEVER part of my omb plans.....With my light show I had to bring a tech --just to help set up & tear down..I teched everything....not enough time ....sound familiar....we talked about this earlier.....anybody else reading out there feel this way ?....

still waiting for someone to tell me how to upload pic. files..Hello..."Is there anybody in there...just nod if you can hear me....is there anybody home ?..come on now.....I can ease your pain..& get you on your feet again....Relax...I'll need some information first...just the basic facts....can you show me where it hurts ?... ...Aaaaaah.... aaah.... aaaaah -- aaaah....aaah...." by Pink Floyd...."Comfortably Numb".....wish I had their talents...I'll never come up with anything that good by myself.......you will be able to play that song---Bm,A,G,Em,----A,D,C,G,C9...It will never sound like Floyd..BUT-You can play it & it will sound good..people will recognize it....simplified....Except for a couple books I bought--it's all FREE...& out there waiting for you !

YOU CAN DO IT !
orb.

[Orb Vroomer]

I think this is my first reply I've made to myself,but no one is in here,yet today,& I had a couple more points to make.

Guess who I ADMIRE most in the contest ? Think you know ? I'll bet you don't !

I'll tell you...Kent Arnsbarger ! Why ? NOT because he has,probably the most natural sounding kit. NOT because he is also an excellent drummer..What,then ?
He was doing his thing when a GIANT ROAD BLOCK nearly stopped his career. Did he give up ? NO ! Did he make excuses ? NO ! He found a way to carry on.
When he held up his injured pinky, I thought we were going to see a one handed drummer ! I was ready to freak ! Thankfully,that was not the case.He @ least recovered enough to use his hand again.But he played through it,when he didn't have his left hand working. He found a way to make it work. With his talents & motivation,he found a way to pull it off.With support from his band (I'm going to assume a few issues here),& his efforts he pulled it off. Like Rick Allen (who he mentioned),he had to use his ingenuity,along with technology to accomplish what he did. He was playing songs that are familiar to most people,so he didn't have a lot of lee-way there.Just like Rick. & just like Rick,the people @ his shows knew what it is supposed to sound like.The fans @ a Def L. concert knew what the songs were supposed to sound like ,just like @ his gigs.Not much wiggle room. & like the fans that shelled out ticket $ @ Def L. concerts,there is a certain expectation of what they want to hear.If he couldn't pull it off it would become obvious. & being able to play a set, or half a night, before dancers up close SAW what he was doing,no one could tell by LISTENING ! Incredible !!
He may have lost a couple of fills.It was not the same as when he was 100%. But compared to a omb,his task was harder.I play mostly my own songs,so no one has anyway of gauging/comparing it to familiar music.No one would know if I played the wrong arrangement--they never HEARD it before. (*The reason I always played a couple of covers is to let people see what could be done by a omb.)
HE didn't make excuses.HE didn't give up.HE worked thru the road block in his life.It wasn't easy.It can't work for everybody.Some people DO have to give up.
HE didn't give up.HE didn't quit.
That what I admire about his accomplishments the most.
That should be a lesson for all of us.NO excuses.Do SOMETHING. At least TRY something.
Maybe you noticed, by now, my metaphors,& song lyric references ,etc.(obvious by now) .If I can use them to make a point, I do.
So for everybody reading this : I'll use a lyrical metaphor easily understandable by all :: AC DC.
FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK !!!!   ...... WE SALUTE YOU !!!!!!!!   
I salute you,Kent !!!! We all should. You story should be inspirational & motivational to everybody.  YOU ROCK !!!!!!!!
Use his story to make yourself TRY harder--whatever your goals are .
Never give up !!
Always try to be better than just one person. & that one person should be YOURSELF !!! Not somebody else.Not apples & oranges.Apples & apples.
If Kent can overcome it,what's your excuse ? Better have a bigger problem than him, if you think YOUR problem is what's stopping you!!

The name of this thread should have been something like:  Philosophical Viewpoints Of Art,Music,Performances, & Approaches from different Perspectives.
That wouldn't fit in the header,though. & besides ,it's too late for that.
There are always only two choices: Carry on or give up. Nothing else.....
Philosophically speaking, yours truly.  orb.......now.....if I can just get to my lighting thread......

[REF]

The Video I sent in to AM is just titled TrapKAT XL, and I basically did it from the perspective drum set soloing and percussion, and used different sets throughout. The DK was supplemental. Actually, I was going to make -try to make- my own multipad controller when I saw the DK on ebay and won it. I basically wanted the extra pads for sounds I cannot fit onto the TK. The idea of using it as a omb controller never became part of the process. BUT, in the process of trying to get it to work with the Procussion and failing, I unplugged it, hooked it up to other mods, didn't like what I had to work with, and ended up hooking it to the little Boss 330 and stacked a couple sounds together for the three or four solos I used it on. As a melodic instrument the segues worked in pretty well.

Indeed, drum soloing and big drum sets are something I have been into since Ginger Baker. "Toad" is still, to me, a masterpiece of soloing within the confines of someone's style. Baker definitely has his own style and sound. When Disraeli Gears came out and I heard Baker using tympani, orchestra bells, gongs, and all it was a definite epiphany for me. Then Carl Palmer and his rig. Then Billy Cobhams profound impact and all his changing setups. Then a revisitation to Tony Williams and Max Roach at 38 years old. Along with Buddy Rich those have been main influences. The art of soloing has always been something I have been into. In my days with Legend I was doing the long 15-20 minute solo. Not sure if that's when the girlfriends got up to get drinks  . Even in disco/top 40 bands I was given a spot to do my thing. But, as every drummer knows, you get your little piece of the pie but most of the night anchor down the band and do your fills, etc. Like I heard Chester Thompson say, You can play a two and a half hour concert and never get a drum solo.

I don't generally play beats in a solo, simply because I have seen so many others do it, and it seems like they are killing time until the next flurry idea comes into their mind. None of my influences played that type of solo so I guess it wasn't something burned into me early on. If I play a time-type solo it revolves around little melodic passages, as you can see in the vids.

I assumed the Contest would render alot of the omb concepts, so I decided to just show off the TK as a real soloists drum set, with the percussion stuff, and a little melodic piece thrown in for expansion possibilities. Just tried to do an overall kind of thing, I guess. Most of the time I do set up with 8 toms. Rim pads are cymbals. My acoustic set up is 20 drums, around 50 cymbals and accent cymbals, gong, 70s type thing. I used to have a log drum, timp, pan drum, 12 gongs, temple blocks, cymbal tree and other stuff back in the 70s. I onlt have the one gong now, and use the Boss 330 to trigger the orchestral percussion. But, my days of using the big acoustic set, tear down and set up and tear down again, and concerts and clinics are over, so it is back to the TrapKAT. And I want the extra pads for cymbal bells, bow tings, gongs, effects, etc. If stacking becomes a playable option for me, than that's good too.

That DOES mean at some point I will, of necessity for staying interested and motivated, get further into the omb stuff. It seems a waste of money to have these things and NOT employ some of that. It will just have to fit into what my wife and I will be doing musically.  

I'll definitely pick your brain on the Procussion. I just do not understand the way they set their modules up. They are unlike any other I have used. Not very user friendly or intuitive like others I have, which can all be figured out with some usage, by and large. I can try to use the Procussion forever and never figure out how they work and how to access sounds for set ups. Their "zones" are really odd to me for some reason.  

I do like AMs manuals. Their approach to teaching and use is a good one. I just haven't dug into them yet. That is half the battle right there.

As far as guitar charts, I am definitely a visual-type learner, so the DVDs will be the best bet for me. I've had friends send me to various web sites for tabs and other things, and basically it just glazes over my eyes. I need to watch someone doing it, and have them tell me WHY they are doing it. But playing guitar and other things on the TK, with the possibility of two full octaves is a nice thing and I'll get into that, as well.

Kent Arnsbarger's finger reminded me of shooting myself with a pneumatic nailing gun in my index finger. I drop sticks all the time because of it. It isn't as bad as it once was. Was 20+ years ago. Never healed right, but it's obviously usable. You just have to keep plugging away. I saw Rick Allen on a Sean Hannity program last week, I think. I have rarely seen Hannity's program, but was surfing and thought I recognized Rick. Very inspirational story.

When you posted this thread I told my wife you would probably win the Contest. Jut a feeling I had. Imagine the time they would have had if they had a hundred entries. I have begun to wonder how many KAT users there are in the North Texas, DFW area. I'd love to hook up with some for some KAT jams.

[Orb Vroomer]

REF--are you my newest 'BEST FRIEND' now ? Ditto on all you mentioned in that last post. Not going to try to address each 1 individually right now.It's more productive to move forward with advice @ ideas.Your talk,earlier ,of human need to socialize,sounded 100% correct,when I read that .Having said that........


Let me address your situation. DK's are a lot more user friendly than they appear @ first.I know Poteus inside out .Less about Procussion,but would suspect it to be highly similar.Let's see if this helps people. I was under the impression that this info is DK 101 beginner stuff,but that my be incorrect.If you already know what I going to tell you here,feel free to say "DUH,ORB,-----WE ALL KNEW THAT !!!!!  " I wouldn't be offended in the least. Just tell me what other hold ups you have,& I if can help, I will,& we can continue to move forward.So......try this approach.


It is absolutely necessary to have a keyboard controller hooked up to speed up programming methods.In your case the mallet kat should serve the function.For others,who don' have a key cont. you may consider picking up someones  'obsolete gear' . A while back a drive went out on my Mirage rack sampler.Having to face the prospect of losing those sounds & my songs involved ,I looked for a drive . Ended up buying a perfectly working Mirage keyboard/sampler from Sweetwater for $100 .Worked perfectly.Able to put drive in. & @ the same time ,had the key option to use keyboard ,by swapping the drive back & forth so it was win win for me!!! So here is what I think you should try.....


Hook up your mallet K into the DK (I guess trap,too but am not familiar with it .) Your DK can merge the data from that into your Proteus or Procussion , (I;m assuming it works like the proteus.Set up you MK where it can be reached conveniently from your seated position @ your DK. You are not going get up & move back & forth--too slow.Proceed as follows:

With this arrangement you can access every sound on your module. 1) set MK ch. to the ch. on { P  } -- (proteus or any module) 2)get a 'drum sound patch' on that ch. in P.       3) you now have access to every individual sound/key   into P.    [including 'hidden' notes beyond the range of the high & low range from the MK ]  these can be accessed by transposing up or down from MK ..remember--midi has a range of 0 {C- neg 2} to 128 {C8}. No 128 note controllers I know of--might be wrong.
Proceed as follows:

A) step on edit switch of DK & hit the trig who's note you want to program   B) advance cursor & get note flashing  C) search for individual note/sound  you want  to be on that pad by playing any note on MK.    D) when you hit any key,you will hear the sound you want ,it will be appearing in the DK screen as the flashing NEW note   You have now 'auto-loaded' the note onto that pad.Very easy.. E) repeat on all pads till your new set up is how you want it.   This is how I edit. You can access any sound without hassles this way-all on board to pick from on MK.
Remember to save-you can further modify @ will. The main thing about  'auto load' ----,the NOTE must be flashing on DK screen.that is how you' load it'.

Your programming frustrations will likely lesson.DO NOT do all you editing with endless cursor/advance funtions on DK alone .. It is too slow & time consuming to do that way .Leads to slowness & frustration.
If this does not help,send me more ?'s.  I'll try to help,
 anywhere I can.


As far as that amazing complement regarding contest winner--when I posted on May 2 the "Vid perf on YT post " I did it in a mistaken belief that I wasn't properly entered.After the newsletter & I did not see my vids on site, I did not think I was even IN THE CONTEST !!!  I did not realize uploads were not completed . Sure glad that was wrong!!!   My goal was to network & try to 'ride the coat tale's of the contest atmosphere.Not necessarily be the winner---that would have just been a HUGE side benefit. Whoever wins will be deserving,in my opinion.Just glad to be entered & have a chance --like everybody else who entered !!! Gets back to your "human nature /socializing thoughts".  Sounded right to me..

This contest is incredible to me.If Mario did not do it ----this  & all my posts would not exist.Nor my YT site. & I had not turned on rig for 3 years --sound familiar to anybody else ?  I would not ,in a short 2 months,have been viewed worldwide--Europe Asia South America US & so on. That is why I E-mailed Mario for thanking him for the motivation it provided to me & others.
This forum has over 6000 members.....sharing,learning,teaching,growing....Awesome !!!  That was always my MAIN GOAL.

New  best friend ?     REF.   ?   after initial senseless petty bickering.... get it going & let me know if it helped.......  orb.