[Orb Vroomer]

Ah,the common  situations of us human creatures ,that you & I have spoke of in these threads.

I am ACTUALLY NOT AN EXPERT on many points coming up.Since I've had a Mapper since 1987 (please don't ask to explain this,unless your interested in things such as midi codes & learning hex codes & other factors & I will be unable & unwilling to discuss ) .I don't use ALL THE FUNCTIONS on DK because of this.
And I couldn't deal with that ,immediately either.Only when I left CO. back to MO. in1989 ,was I forced to figure it out,not having access to my crutches (people) who helped me up there.

Many paths lead to the top of the mountain.Plus,we are not all climbing the same mountain- we have different goals.

Re: ditching cymbals.  I considered ditching my 4 piece 1965 Slingerland drums .They don't sound like a modern kit,so they are good for my oldies exp. , but not the sound I need.My advice to you:Try not to ever ditch 'obsolete gear'. you may regret it later.Don't close that door."One man's  ceiling is another man's floor" was that the DEAD. I can't remember & something about trash  (I think was in there). Found objects ?
I addressed wire mess earlier.That's personal option ,too. PS-Slingerland was purchased for $150 in 1991.

Move forward--you may need to back up occasionally,too--nothing wrong there.

Electronics are great : headphones rehearsal etc.You might find yourself going "Back To The Future" on occasions,however.

Not familiar with your Yamaha module--what is it,again ?

Got to go now & fill the bird feeders in my backyard. The storms have messed up a couple houses I built & put out there,as well.
Should I call you Ray instead of REF now ?   orb or Rob.....whatever.....

[REF]

Ray is good. Rob is good. Straightens me out on whether or not you are from the Netherlands or something. 

[Orb Vroomer]

Missouri is the show me state .That's where I live now. Will you show me your ten gallon hat ?
This was a message from Rob to Ray.   Thank you, Ray .  Watch your step or I'll have to call you Raymond. Does everybody love you ?

[REF]

LOL. If you only knew.

I'm actually a New Englander by birth. No ten gallon hats. Remember? I hate Texas. It's 100 degrees today. The only things that belong here are fire ants and lizards. And my wife tells me where we are is more pleasant than southern Texas - Houston, San Antonio ... They can have it. Heat is not in my nature by geographic location. In Maine, it's a heat wave if the temp is 90 degrees three days in a row.

The Yamaha DTXtreme 3 is the module I would like to get. There's a discussion about mods in a few threads on here. Between the TDW20 and the Yamaha I would be able to access all the sounds I would need to recreate what I have acoustically, and obviously things I do not have. 

And I have kept aside some cymbals I will not part with, mostly my UFIPs and flat chinas from Sabian. They made some cymbals for me and I must keep those.

[vindrums]

      Fire ants and lizards, but it's more pleasant than another place.....oh boy. How did you find your way to be so displaced from Conn.?  So did you see them shoveling snow (hail) in Vermont? Like a foot!
   Just an off the cuff thought about modules. I have always hated the DTx's in a big way, but, from what I've heard, they really got some stuff right on this new one. The sounds are supposed to be great. The thing is, I cringe whenever I hear someone say I'm going to get a TDW or DTX module for my main module. If the kit the modules were made to service don't do a lot of basic midi things, then the modules probably don't either. And some try to do it another way. I do have to research more, but that's what I've found. For instance, I've heard people play with a TDW and it wasn't sounding as good as the same module played with v-drums. And we can get these killer sounds in a variety of other modules. Modules that support the midi spec to some degree. Then your KATs are much more useful. I've said it time and again, these companies support keyboard players with midi implementation, but they laugh at drummers, and just give them the potential to trigger drums. Oh boy!
Vince
   

[REF]

Well, I have a DMpro. It is not a good, overall, as the TDW20, to my ears. But the TDW20, if more proprietary for its own V-drums, does not have overall sound quality I would like to hear, then that leaves the Yamaha. I heard a Yam some years ago and thought the Roland sound much more alive and had thicker sounding cymbals and drums. I don't remember which model it was though.

People are highly expectant of the 2Box. How many choices does the edrummer have? DDrum is gone (2Box people). Alesis only has the DM5 in production. Had one of those. Nice starter/intermediate module I guess. Actually I thought it had some nicer snare sounds than the Pro. Not much polyphony, though, which caused me problems. Who else makes quality modules?

So, unless I got another TDW20 to handle my needs (NOT), I really don't have alot of choices to handle all the sounds I want to employ.

[DrumMan]

Polyphony--is the name of the substain and how many notes per second will sound.....Why would anyone consider an inferior,less than 128 not polyphony?Because they havent heard a Yamaha Motiff--matters not wether its regular,ES,or XS--and with a plg-150dr plug in,add 32 note polyphony to the 128=more than any other sound modulle on the market,I believe(help me out soft-synth-ers)also more than software based.Please,tell me if there are other modules,or soft synth's capable of such sweet polyphony,I love to hear the crash substain roll off,if I'm in freak/prog mode doing tom fills,multiple bass drum flurrys,or just straight ahead jazzing with a sizzle ride-talk to me,worshippers of LESSER polyphony noise makers.BTW-I use a DTXpress 2 for sound effects,with the Motiff:)it only has 32 note polyphony
Peace,
Listen to that sweet substain

DrumMan

[vindrums]

  One thing I will say, the new Yams are going to run Rland for the money...but, way expensive, need to pay extra to sample....less quality than the dmpro, and the same 64 polyphony.
   I think you can hear from DrumMan, that you (REF) like some of the same desires for attributes in a kit! You probably get all the same sounds from the dtx that are on the companies flagship modules. (Motif)
    Didn't see what just the DTX module would cost.....
I still love the DMpro, and after a little reading realize how much like my QSR it is. I already knew, but sometimes I wonder ed if the synth end is as deep. The sounds are the same or better than the dm5, you just have to get rid of some of those 'out of the box' effects. You definately have to be okay with programming to use it probably more so than the DTX. They have effects piled on some stuff that one would never use. Just take a look, and decide if you really wanted the chorus turned up to 90% on that sample.heheheha (I'm serious) I just don't see you wanting this dtx for a 'main' module...for the money or for the midi implementation. The dtx have added many natural sounding things to their hats for instance with the slight pitch bending..etc. but again that's with their piezo pads setup. With KAT midi you can pull that off in a variety of ways.
   And REF, didn't you say you already have proteus and procussion and DMpro? You've got so much already! But if you just want that one great modern module there are choices!
Vince

[REF]

Well, this got addressed on a thread I started about the one module that can do it all. Jovato felt his Yamaha DTXtreme 3 was the one to check out. Others are Roland fans.

I cannot make this Procussion come to life. I've about given up. Glad I only paid a few bucks for it off ebay. I just have brain freeze with it, I guess. I have a hard time with the other EMUs I have, as well. I ended up throwing one away, also off ebay, which had a crazy data wheel. And I can see evidence of the data wheels on these other units beginning to go weak.

I can live with the TDW20 as a main module, but that leaves the DMPro for incidentals and it does not have any, really. No decent cymbal sounds. I can't tell at this point WHAT the Procussion has. I am not going to purchase another TDW20 for incidental sounds I use. That leaves buying a module with better main sounds and using the Roland for the incidentals and such, which it has plenty of. And I have tried to tweak the DMPro, and haven't been very successful. Definite knowledge needed for that.

I wish these modules came with dual midi IN. I suppose that would be electronically difficult or impossible though. But that would settle the problem quite nicely.

BTW, CT to TX. Actually by way of ME, TN, back to ME, then NC, VA, now here. Met my wife online, actually. Going on three years. Quite a blessing, she is. Back to VA soon. I miss the mountains. And the forests.

[Orb Vroomer]

Drum man,Vince,Ray----   Re: 128 note polyphony.......Proteus......& 'chorus' effects.  This I know:

#1  My Proteus is an E-MU XL-1 Turbo 128 note synthesizer (I call it a Proteus --all the sound chips are compatible in same era models-older ones are different.& some are only 32 note polyphony )  When you trigger sustaining sounds,& they 'linger' eventually it's note is "stolen" ,because if too many are sustaining you can "run out of notes". When your module cuts off sustain of say ,a long cymbal decay--what happens is too many other sustaining notes then "STEAL" a note & decay gets cut off.
First on --First off.     Last on is last off--- (sustain) is cut off. That's why 32 or 64 are inferior to 128 .

If you use too many tracks (notes) on a sequencer-notes start dropping out.Unless it does not exceed the capacity of 128 (or 32, or 64 what ever the models spec. So:
Ray---look in manual to determine (32,64,128,) of THAT model.The lower amount--the more likely hood of notes dropping out.It is NOT sounds per second (DM) --it is first in--first  out ... . & last in --last out .
Remember "machine gun roll" sound (monophonic sample) ? It won't allow for a Crush roll because each consecutive hit re-triggers the same (MONO)  sample & cuts off decay of prior note.
Roland R-8 sounded so great & it didn't do that. Vince -- Can you play a believable crush roll on yours? Most current models are OK (not a monophonic sample).

#2 chorusing a sound.  A chorus is actually a very short "delay effect". It "doubles the 1 note & thus adds one ( 'also phasing'  ) for 2 notes & cuts 128 P to 64 P. That's why a chorus 'thickens the sound"---just ask a guitar player why he always uses a chorus effect. IT'S FAT, BABY !!! A CHORUS ALWAYS HALVES THE polyphonic capabilities !!! (for a us --not a guitar ,DUH, ORB we new that ! ).


My FIRST (& only ) E-bay purchase of a Proteus 2000 had a flaw. For $360 the guy told me it was "PERFECT".  It was not.When I contacted seller for  a return --he started a dispute !!!  I don't know the policy of resolution--so I disputed it with MY VISA -- NOT   E-bay..He lost-I won . He had no way to "PROVE IT WAS WORKING AS ADVERTISED". I offered to return it--he never contacted me--so I assumed he tried to sell me a "BOX OF ROCKS".   If you sold it ,wouldn't you want unit sent back ? If it was perfect ?. He didn't. That is why I suspected he knew it was flawed. (maybe wrong ,never found out--but not wanting it returned was highly suspicious !!! Be careful !  Then @ GC I found one for $150 -- & it WAS PERFECT. Plus with GC I had 90 days to find out !!!  Be careful !!!

I paid, I think $1200 for XL . Then loaded 3 more sound chips into it (another $1000 ,pricey , but powerful !! ) So if it tanks--I transfer sound chips into GC  $150 model------my "back up " . But Proteus front panel knobs get "WIGGY" after a while -- and can become unusable. My XL has a tiny flaw--but it doesn't affect performance--but one day probably will--like the E-bay one !! The seller may have not used it for a while & ACTUALLY didn't know. 

What is the polyphony of your Procussion,Ray ?

[vindrums]

 Just want to repeat, looking at these drum modules....you can do better by getting a better key module. For instance, you aren't going to get better drum sounds on a DTX than the Motif. (anyone, correct me if I'm wrong) Music production people don't buy the DTX, they buy the Motif which is giant and expandable.
      What, has the procussion never made any sound? Emu and KAT are close cousins in DrumKAT land....for a short while, emu was the mom! (and distributer)
   Old machines with their data wheels are certainly a weakness in these modules.....the wheel is always the first to go.
    And Orb, I wasn't even thinking about chorus stealing polyphony, I was thinking how chorus doesn't help drum sounds and the QSR, and Dmpro have these effects slathered on when you get the box, Chorus will thicken guitar and bass, but doesn't really do the same for drums. Polyphony certainly another concern. I was just saying why people like the dm5 and think they hate the dmpro....same sounds, different effects!
     And buzz rolls were a lot better with the R-8....while certain newer modules might only have 64 or 128 places for a 16th note to be, the R-8 had like 2000 (throwing numbers around here indiscriminately....I forget what the exact numbers are) is that overkil? yes it is! but it allows you to do things like the roll button on the front of the module, where you can press the sound and the roll button, and not only get a dynamic buzz, but you could actually hear the 'digging in' type of technique demonstrated.
   ReF, that's a lot of states....glad to see Virginia back in the mix, less fire ants.....
...maybe someday there will be a book: Ray Frigon; Mover/ Shaker/ Drummer/ Legend   HeHeHa   get it?
Vince

[Orb Vroomer]

Vince --No R-8 any more ?   Mine is sitting on a shelf in perfect working order (I think, not fired up lately.)
It broke my heart to pull it out of live rack,but I needed channels to be Orbital Synthanhauser von Moogenstien !!
It took up half my (16) channels-didn't work for me as Orb.
If I was just 'drumming' in a band it would be my whole rig !!  side project anyone ?
Did you guys grasp the :  first on -- first off .... last on-- last off       Polyphony concept    If not, better.( Pronounced : pol--if -fo-nee) Accent on "if"


Did I see some wuss talking fire ants & lizards ?   Bug guy just found brown recluse spiders in condos 4-Plex  -- like one big house to them. Community effort to rid them & keep out .
Most DEADLY spider in US--scary--don't believe me ? Go to:
 
http://www,brown-recluse.com/           Don't let your children watch this __ unless you want them sleeping in your bed for a while !!!!  woof, er ,I mean--    reeeeeeaaaaaaar
orb.

[vindrums]

    The R-8 was my only module for years...I think I started with a U-110, and a RX soimething machine and then traded those for the R-8. Five midi channels..definable outs, was it 8 plus stereo?....so tweakable...great sounds. I know a few people that just drum e-wise, and that's all the module they need! I had one card, I think it was 'latin'.
   Your polyphony explanation was very good! Kind of karate kid..:.:.first on first off etc..
    I knew what you were talking about when you said the name......bad spider. I only know of fire ants from a couple experiences in some part of Florida. (don't recall city) Once a smart person steps on a hill, you remember not to again! In the keys there were some little green lizard like things....don't remember what they called them, but seem a lot like the tv gecko....they would just freak you a little because they moved so fast. You'd be walking along a sidewalk, and they would cross in front of you....just a zip and a blur. Nothing to hurt you, but Florida made up for that with the scorpians. Step on one, and even while they take their last breath they make you pay!
Vince
   

[REF]

Polyphony was only a problem on the Alesis DM5. Only 32 and fast playing had drop outs. The Proteus Procussion, I believe has 32 from what I have read about it, but that doesn't matter. I only wanted to use it for incidental sounds, not main playing. I just cannot figure out how to access the individual sounds to create my own setups.

If I am not mistaken the DTX 3 IS the drum sounds off the Motiff and more. Is that not correct? But the Motiff, how many actual drum and cymbal sounds does it have? Can't be that many if it's designed for keyboardist's basic drumming they do for production. I'll have to look that up. I might be surprised. Of course, I don't need a keyboard module. I have those.

[Orb Vroomer]

Ray -that post you said you would print out & look @ --I told how you to access individual sounds with your MK or a keyboard.Print it ,bud-- just do it & problem solved .
Polyphony  is ALWAYS a problem--for any module once you use too many notes--Usually only when a sequencer program uses too many TRACKS (total notes at once ).
Give me a link to a manual, (web ? E-MU archive ? ). OK ,so I can read it--I won't need to print it (maybe a couple pages).